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    Clear red mosaic

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    BlueCobalt
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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  BlueCobalt on Mon Oct 24 2011, 23:16

    You maybe correct! Definitely in the judging manual can't understand if it is not widely available for the membership it needs to be! How else do all mosaic breeders know where there going!

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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Guest on Mon Oct 24 2011, 23:30

    BlueCobalt wrote:You maybe correct! Definitely in the judging manual can't understand if it is not widely available for the membership it needs to be! How else do all mosaic breeders know where there going!

    Well.....no disrespect to anyone's best efforts, or the time given up by whoever did the 'editorial' work, but if you were learning about the qualities of the Mosaic from what is in the book I have - sadly, I don't think you would learn "much".

    Face
    Cocks
    to show blaze typical of a Goldfich, ie. an area of colouration extending centrally from the beak and should be as restricted as possible, with the eyes positioned within the area of colouration.

    Hens to show eye line only, colour should not run from eye to eye, nor down cheeks.

    Shoulders. Small distinct area on shoulders only, colour not to extend beyond the small butt area.

    Rump. Small distinct area on top of the rump, not to extend beyond this small area.

    Chest Cocks to show a slight area on chest, not to flow up or down to the head or underbody. Hens should show less colour than cocks on the chest area.

    .......all specimens should express the colour points as bright lipochrome colour. The remainder of the bird must express a pure white plumage.

    Basically......that appears to be about it ? for the Lipo's.
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    Dennis

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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Dennis on Tue Oct 25 2011, 07:54

    Assumite wrote:
    BlueCobalt wrote:You maybe correct! Definitely in the judging manual can't understand if it is not widely available for the membership it needs to be! How else do all mosaic breeders know where there going!

    Well.....no disrespect to anyone's best efforts, or the time given up by whoever did the 'editorial' work, but if you were learning about the qualities of the Mosaic from what is in the book I have - sadly, I don't think you would learn "much".

    Face
    Cocks
    to show blaze typical of a Goldfich, ie. an area of colouration extending centrally from the beak and should be as restricted as possible, with the eyes positioned within the area of colouration.

    Hens to show eye line only, colour should not run from eye to eye, nor down cheeks.

    Shoulders. Small distinct area on shoulders only, colour not to extend beyond the small butt area.

    Rump. Small distinct area on top of the rump, not to extend beyond this small area.

    Chest Cocks to show a slight area on chest, not to flow up or down to the head or underbody. Hens should show less colour than cocks on the chest area.

    .......all specimens should express the colour points as bright lipochrome colour. The remainder of the bird must express a pure white plumage.

    Basically......that appears to be about it ? for the Lipo's.

    I do wish that all judges follow the STANDARD when judging, the Standard is there to GUIDE you an not because they like a BIRD.
    From recent experience I was told that a Clear Red Mosaic in question did not have enough red on the CHEST,
    It had a faint dash of RED on the Chest, which is what required by the Standard, after all the Bird is Not a Red Factor.
    It left me wondering what should I breed for the show Bench, if Judges are not following the standard for judging, but choosing a Bird because they like it.













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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Guest on Tue Oct 25 2011, 08:41

    Dennis wrote:
    Assumite wrote:
    Face
    Cocks
    to show blaze typical of a Goldfich, ie. an area of colouration extending centrally from the beak and should be as restricted as possible, with the eyes positioned within the area of colouration.

    Hens to show eye line only, colour should not run from eye to eye, nor down cheeks.

    Shoulders. Small distinct area on shoulders only, colour not to extend beyond the small butt area.

    Rump. Small distinct area on top of the rump, not to extend beyond this small area.

    Chest Cocks to show a slight area on chest, not to flow up or down to the head or underbody. Hens should show less colour than cocks on the chest area.

    .......all specimens should express the colour points as bright lipochrome colour. The remainder of the bird must express a pure white plumage.

    Basically......that appears to be about it ? for the Lipo's.

    I do wish that all judges follow the STANDARD when judging, the Standard is there to GUIDE you an not because they like a BIRD.
    From recent experience I was told that a Clear Red Mosaic in question did not have enough red on the CHEST,
    It had a faint dash of RED on the Chest, which is what required by the Standard, after all the Bird is Not a Red Factor.
    It left me wondering what should I breed for the show Bench, if Judges are not following the standard for judging, but choosing a Bird because they like it.

    Having spent a week or so trying to 'draw' some information about Mosaics, from those who know, & reading up the limited amount of information I have to compare against what are put up as good birds.....& particularly in view of Cliffs earlier comment about hens / cock, it did ( & does ) seem to me that the Standard in the book is very much skewed towards the 'minimalist' hen....almost as if most of the cock standard had been 'missed' out. To have a standard which defines the chest to be "less than a cock" could be argued to be pretty meaningless ?

    Either way, if I had invested in Mosaics & only had that to work to......I think I might be at a disadvantage ?

    On another more general point.....being someone who prefers smaller, proportionate birds, I was disappointed/surprised not to find a "size" - minimum / maximum / 'ideal' in the Standard Book ? that was being advocated & aimed for.
    When I say smaller & proportionate....I don't mean 'small', I just mean sensible & proportionate, around what I thought was 5 & 1/2 " ?......
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    Red devil
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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Red devil on Tue Oct 25 2011, 09:40

    Assumite wrote:
    Dennis wrote:
    Assumite wrote: Face Cocks to show blaze typical of a Goldfich, ie. an area of colouration extending centrally from the beak and should be as restricted as possible, with the eyes positioned within the area of colouration. Hens to show eye line only, colour should not run from eye to eye, nor down cheeks. Shoulders. Small distinct area on shoulders only, colour not to extend beyond the small butt area. Rump. Small distinct area on top of the rump, not to extend beyond this small area. Chest Cocks to show a slight area on chest, not to flow up or down to the head or underbody. Hens should show less colour than cocks on the chest area. .......all specimens should express the colour points as bright lipochrome colour. The remainder of the bird must express a pure white plumage. Basically......that appears to be about it ? for the Lipo's.
    I do wish that all judges follow the STANDARD when judging, the Standard is there to GUIDE you an not because they like a BIRD. From recent experience I was told that a Clear Red Mosaic in question did not have enough red on the CHEST, It had a faint dash of RED on the Chest, which is what required by the Standard, after all the Bird is Not a Red Factor. It left me wondering what should I breed for the show Bench, if Judges are not following the standard for judging, but choosing a Bird because they like it.
    Having spent a week or so trying to 'draw' some information about Mosaics, from those who know, & reading up the limited amount of information I have to compare against what are put up as good birds.....& particularly in view of Cliffs earlier comment about hens / cock, it did ( & does ) seem to me that the Standard in the book is very much skewed towards the 'minimalist' hen....almost as if most of the cock standard had been 'missed' out. To have a standard which defines the chest to be "less than a cock" could be argued to be pretty meaningless ? Either way, if I had invested in Mosaics & only had that to work to......I think I might be at a disadvantage ? On another more general point.....being someone who prefers smaller, proportionate birds, I was disappointed/surprised not to find a "size" - minimum / maximum / 'ideal' in the Standard Book ? that was being advocated & aimed for. When I say smaller & proportionate....I don't mean 'small', I just mean sensible & proportionate, around what I thought was 5 & 1/2 " ?......

    Nigel you have obviously read the CCBA's "show standards and rules" booklet so don't understand why you keep pushing for more information when you already have all you need.

    Surely the next step is to get hold of some and gain the rest of your knowledge from keeping and breeding them, which in my opinion is the best way to learn about any variety which is why most judges keep chopping and changing what they keep.



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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Guest on Tue Oct 25 2011, 10:34

    Red devil wrote:
    Nigel you have obviously read the CCBA's "show standards and rules" booklet so don't understand why you keep pushing for more information when you already have all you need.
    Surely the next step is to get hold of some and gain the rest of your knowledge from keeping and breeding them, which in my opinion is the best way to learn about any variety which is why most judges keep chopping and changing what they keep.

    I'm not 'pushing for more information' Cliff ? My initial questions were about 'pairing'....we've bottomed that - done / dusted.
    I typed up what it says in the Standards book to try to enable the discussion, that's all. I made an observation that the 'Mosaic' Standard does not seem very detailed & others seemed to agree ?

    But....having said that....if Judges have a different/better "version" of the Standard, as suggested earlier in the thread....perhaps breeders & exhibitors should have it too ? Neutral

    If & when I look for some some.....I want to have a good idea in my own mind how good they are before I buy them....not risk buying a 'crock' pale I don't intend to 'chop & change'..... don't intend to repeat mistakes made 'elsewhere' if I can help it silent.....& have no desire to be a Judge except of the 'my own' study

    I would like to know what the 'size' is supposed to be though .....but only because I can't seem to find it in the book ? .....otherwise I wouldn't ask Wink


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    Tony H

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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Tony H on Tue Oct 25 2011, 10:48

    Assumite wrote:
    I would like to know what the 'size' is supposed to be though .....but only because I can't seem to find it in the book ? .....otherwise I wouldn't ask
    Show standards and rules page 3 INDIVIDUAL STANDARDS!!!5 1/2"(40mm)

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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Guest on Tue Oct 25 2011, 11:57

    Tony H wrote:
    Show standards and rules page 3 INDIVIDUAL STANDARDS!!!5 1/2"(40mm)

    Do you know.......sometimes you cannot see something for 'looking' ? Embarassed The number of times I have hunted back & fro in that booklet looking for that & never found it.

    Thank you Tony ( hangs head in shame...... Rolling Eyes )
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    Red devil
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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Red devil on Tue Oct 25 2011, 13:39

    Assumite wrote:
    Tony H wrote:I would like to know what the 'size' is supposed to be though .....but only because I can't seem to find it in the book ? .....otherwise I wouldn't ask
    Show standards and rules page 3 INDIVIDUAL STANDARDS!!!5 1/2"(40mm)
    Sorry Tony you have made a mistake 5 1/2" [140mm] obviously you didn't hit that 1 key hard enough Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed


    Last edited by Red devil on Tue Oct 25 2011, 14:26; edited 2 times in total
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    Tony H

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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  Tony H on Tue Oct 25 2011, 14:12

    Red devil wrote: Sorry Tony you have made a mistake 5 1/2" [140mm] obviously you didn't hit that 1 key hard enough Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
    Shucks my wife will never believe anything I say on size now. Embarassed Embarassed affraid
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    canarymatt

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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  canarymatt on Wed Oct 26 2011, 18:49

    Red devil wrote:
    canarymatt wrote:Sorry Richard I dont have a clue about the standards,my Spanish is not that good and have never senn a set of standard but I guess they must be different or the judge would have marked it down.

    How did they compare with the other exhibits Question Question Question Question Question

    Red, sorry cannot really remember the other birds in the class but I do know there was a lot of people raving about the bird and suggesting it was way ahead of the other birds in the class.
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    norwich
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    Re: Clear red mosaic

    Post  norwich on Sun Nov 04 2012, 19:18

    Just bringing this topic back to answer a question a member asked me .


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