i like this bird.

Yellow agate intensive. parents yellow agate non/int cock split for cobalt and a visual cobalt hen intensive.

Looks like a strongly marked isabel Bob. Is it singing?

GeoffW wrote:Looks like a strongly marked isabel Bob. Is it singing?

not seen it yet Geoff , Got a camera set on it to see.
It might be from if they used it in earlier breedings to thin the lines down.so if that is the case it should be a hen. I think !!

From the photos it looks to me that the head striations are coming down to the edge of the beak, which is of course a clue that it might be a hen. If it is an isabel your cock bird must be a carrier, and the bird itself is . as you say a hen. You might like to check the underflu colour against a known agate.

GeoffW wrote:From the photos it looks to me that the head striations are coming down to the edge of the beak, which is of course a clue that it might be a hen. If it is an isabel your cock bird must be a carrier, and the bird itself is . as you say a hen. You might like to check the underflu colour against a known agate.

Hi Geoff,
        I don't think it is an Isabel with the under flue this colour.

I agree Bob. You said mum was a cobalt, but is she black or agate?

GeoffW wrote:I agree Bob. You said mum was a cobalt, but is she black or agate?

Yellow agate cobalt. I put pics of the two in one cage. under Mother and offspring

Bob

How close would you say the actual colour of the bird in your shed is compared to the version we are seeing on the forum? Regardless of the underfly colour, I still see classic isabel. I have had a look at the mum/offspring photo and cannot see enough of mum to have any opinion whatever. Did you breed or buy her?

GeoffW wrote:Bob

How close would you say the actual colour of the bird in your shed is compared to the version we are seeing on the forum? Regardless of the underfly colour, I still see classic isabel. I have had a look at the mum/offspring photo and cannot see enough of mum to have any opinion whatever. Did you breed or buy her?

The colour is the same as you see .the hen y a I bought in as I did with the carrier cock non/int and a visual y.a cobalt cock non/int

Thanks Bob

Can you put photos up of the parents please.

GeoffW wrote:Thanks Bob

Can you put photos up of the parents please.

Will do tomorrow.

mother. yellow agate int cobalt.



father. yellow agate non/int split for cobalt.

Thanks Bob. Cock is certainly an agate. Can I be a complete pain and ask you to hold the hen upside down in your hand and photograph her chest/vent area please?

GeoffW wrote:Thanks Bob. Cock is certainly an agate. Can I be a complete pain and ask you to hold the hen upside down in your hand and photograph her chest/vent area please?

Mother.







The offspring.

Thanks Bob

TonyH you probably have more experience with intensive agate cobalts than anyone else on the forum. Is mum a cobalt? I havn't seen too many, and certainly have never bred with them, unlike you. I am fairly certain that the chick is not. The lipochrome also seems too lemon like , rather than greenish to be an agate.

if pair really is male agate carrier for cobalt x hen agate cobalt the expected results are :
50 % agate cobalt and 50 % agate carrier for cobalt
I believe you are just unlucky this time as this chick is just agate carrier for cobalt (the area below doesn't possess the greyish tinge of the mother allover her underparts)

serin wrote:if pair really is male agate carrier for cobalt x hen agate cobalt the expected results are :
50 % agate cobalt and 50 % agate carrier for cobalt
I believe you are just unlucky this time as this chick is just agate carrier for cobalt (the area below doesn't possess the greyish tinge of the mother allover her underparts)

I realise that Serin but it is the amount of the brown on it that what is the puzzle.

I heard that people introduce the optical blue factor in cobalt birds to get rid of the phaeo. Could it be the case that only one of its genitor possess this factor ?

Optical blue reduces phaeomelanin, it does not change the colour of eumelanin. It the eumelanin colour we are discussing.

Just looking at this thread and the photo's I agree with Geoff but I also question what the hen is, the few dark striations in the flights look brown to me and not black.
Can you confirm this please Bob.
I don't have any books with me at the moment as I'm still working away.

Just had a look at the identification thread I have produced on the forum, and although the striations seems to get subdued they still look black giving the bird in Intensive feather a grass green colouration, but the photo's I have discovered are few so I'm going to make it my mission to find some more Cobalts in as many of the Classic as I can in all Lipochrome colours.

GeoffW wrote:Optical blue reduces phaeomelanin, it does not change the colour of eumelanin. It the eumelanin colour we are discussing.

Might be a silly question. If optical blue reduces phaeomelanin what could be used to inhance it.

I am only aware of selective breeding.

GeoffW wrote:I am only aware of selective breeding.

Thanks again Geoff